Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, YouTube theologians. Welcome to the Theology Q and A podcast. I'm Pastor Wolfmuller in Austin, Texas. That's Pastor. Pastor Andrew Packer.
Got it.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: It's hard. Yeah, it's hard.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Got it. I heard a rumor about you, Pastor Packer, and that is that you stopped celebrating the Annunciation this year because you agree with James Talarico that life doesn't begin until you take your first breath.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. That's. That's not a rumor. That's slander.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Okay.
But I just want to bring it out into the light, make sure it's true or not true. So that's. That's a. That's a myth. Busted. That's not a true rumor, you say, huh? That.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: That is a myth. Busted. Isn't he down in Texas?
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Yeah, somewhere around here. He went to Austin Theological Seminary, which is walking distance from St. Paul. I go down there and I. I look at their. Their libraries. Always selling books for a quarter, you know, give away books. And it's always the orthodox theology that they're trying to call out. So that's nice.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Get a good deal on it.
Are you ready?
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Ah, let's do it.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: All right. First, one question about Luther's writings. What.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: What should we.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: What should we start with? If you're new to this. So they say, hello, Pastor. I want to first thank you for your ministry. You have not only helped me strengthen my faith, but also my Lutheran beliefs. I want to start reading Dr. Luther's writings, but I'm not sure where to begin. Because you point me in the right direction.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. And a lot of people make this mistake, I think, is that is when they start getting interested in the Reformation, they go to these Luther histories and biographies rather than go into Luther's writings, because, okay, the biography is interesting, maybe in that it helps contextualize the arguments. But really, the thing is, if Luther is only helpful to us, if he points us to Christ in the Scriptures, and Luther is helpful to us because he points us to Christ in the Scriptures, but that's his helpfulness. So we want to let his writings do it. I think you have to start with the three confessional writings. So small catechism, large catechism, and small called articles. Those are the three of the 10 texts that are confessional in the Lutheran Church that are collected in the Book of Concord. Three of them are from Luther, and those are the three.
So those are the really helpful ones. And then it depends after that what you are particularly interested in. If you're interested In a Bible commentary, I would go to the greater Galatians commentary.
It's a must read. If you're interested in some of the smaller sort of polemical writings, then you have a lot of options there. We published Whether Soldiers Too Can Be Saved. That's an important, important one. On the freedom of the Christian. Very important early essay from Martin Luther on the war against the Turk. We. So these are all. If you go to everyone's Luther, these are volumes that are published you can download for free from the website Wolfmuller Co.
And so that's. That's really good.
Luther's exploration on the bondage of the will is really important, although I don't know if I would put that first, just because you need some theological context for that one. But at some point you're going to want to read that one as well. His commentaries on the. On the book of Genesis, his introductions to the books of the Bible, these are all really important pieces as well. I would put on the end of the list, by the way, his table talk. I just don't think it's particularly helpful in a lot of different ways. So that I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't start with the table talk. I'd put that towards the end. So what's on your list?
[00:03:44] Speaker B: I didn't hear you mention the freedom of a Christian, did you? Yeah, you mentioned that.
That's an easy read. That's one reasons I would recommend it. It's a. It's pretty short. You could probably read it in a couple hours.
And it just. It's a great overview of the Christian life. So that, that's one I would definitely put up there.
I also his.
It's longer and there's. There's a lot more of them. But if you really wanted to dive into his commentaries, the Genesis commentaries are just so much fun, as you've been doing with. You've been doing that in the worldwide Bible class, I believe, for a while now. Those are just a lot of fun. So those would be two that you didn't mention that I think should be up there and should be read.
Bondage of the Will, you should definitely wait on. I agree with that. Until you've got some more stuff read and under you, it's a more difficult read.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: What would you recommend?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: I think I'd definitely start with the Freedom of the Christian as one of the first ones I'd read after some of the ones you listed, just because it's so easy to read.
There's a lot of versions out there. But all of them are good reads. You can read them in an hour, two hours, depending how fast you read. It's just short, simple, great stuff on the Christian life.
Right. That's where he talks about where before Christ up in heaven where we're king, Lord of all, because blessed in Christ our conscience is free. And then he says, here on earth we're servants of all, slave to everyone, because we're to love and serve our neighbor. So just a lot of great stuff there and then. Yeah, the Genesis commentaries. I saw one roll by. I love the Genesis commentaries too.
So. And then maybe even if you could, you know, his sermons, his house postals and things like that that you can get pretty easily these days. There's a lot of great stuff in the sermons that I think people overlook.
Sometimes the sermons crack me up because, you know, he'll go off on a tangent going against the Pope or the priest or something like randomly inserted into the sermon. But there's great stuff in the sermons too that. That are pretty easy to read for everyone, so I'd recommend those as well.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: This is.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Oh, there it is right there. Concerning Christian liberty.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So here's. If you go to Wolfram the Co and just hit the books download you can. These are all there free to download. So you can. First four chapters of Genesis on the councils and the churches is a. It's a significant read, but that's a really good one. Concerning Christian liberty. There it is. And then somehow you can.
Luther's sermons are.
Are on the website also to download for free.
Yeah. Is that probably right there. There's. I did a podcast where I read all of Luther's sermons is this.
But there's also a way to.
To down. I have the PDF of them hanging around. You probably have to just have to find it there anyway. So.
Luther Sermons PDF.
Yeah, no, that's. Well, anyway, there's a lot of stuff. So that's probably get you started then.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: And that's a great, great, great way to get started.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: If you're there then if that's. If you're started there, then that'll probably take care of you. So I'll try to remember to put a link to the downloads page on this video as well.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: All right, next question.
It's about. Is the Catholic Church the only place you can have the true faith? So, wow, this is a little bit long, longer of a question.
I think it will help for context because I think there are people that maybe like her struggle with this. So she says love the Q and A. Grew up in a home with no faith and married and had children as a kid. But by 26 I was divorced with three very young children. Became a Catholic Roman Catholic. After 10 years of being divorced, I went through an official church annulment. Not for me, but for my ex who was a good man who just was too young when we were married.
When I was divorced 20 years and my kids were all in college, I moved to another state with my job. I met and married a Missouri student, Lutheran and I moved. I've been married and Lutheran for 20 years now. I'm still learning and love it. I only give that all this context for my question. I'm tempted to say at this point. Long story short, too late. I've heard that God established the Catholic Church and this is the only place to get the true body and blood of Christ.
So I'll add establish the Roman Catholic Church. Just to be. Just to be clear, intellectually, I accept that when fallen humans are involved, there will be issues.
So we go back to Scripture as Lutherans do. But boy, the emotions are really impacted by the Roman Catholic position.
I always said if I outlived my husband I would go back to the Roman Catholic Church. But now I'm really torn. I want to get it right for God. I don't care about what people think. My husband and I do Bible studies and participate in our church community, which is something I never experienced. This leads me to believe I have found my earthly home. Thank you and bless you for allowing me to ask.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Well, God be praised for the question.
So we're referring people to books that I would just as a resource. Go to this guy which also is on the website and also can be downloaded for free, which is a summary of Martin Chemnitz examination of the Council of Trent, which is volume one. So hopefully three more volumes are on the way. But this is the kind of Lutheran response to the claims of Catholicism, including this claim that it alone has the authority to interpret Scripture, it alone has the authority to consecrate pastors. It alone has the authority to perform all of the non emergency sacramental acts that the Pope aggregates to himself. All of this authority which belongs to Jesus.
And this is tyrannical and spiritually abusive.
Rome is spiritually abusive. And you can see it in this, with this question, if you just ask what doctrines does the Pope require me to believe that were not written down by the prophets and apostles?
And you see there either there's nothing which is the right answer and then Sola Scriptura stands or the Pope will claim something no matter what it is and it shows you the spiritual tyranny under which he presumes to place you.
And the problem, it always goes back to this. It's an authority problem with Rome.
There's this obsession with being in charge, with being in control.
And what happens is that the office or the man or the institution is placed above the Scriptures, above the Gospel, so that, so that we have to go to, to Galatians chapter one, where Paul says if I or an angel from heaven preach a different doctrine, let me be anathema, let them be anathema.
That there must be a way that the Church can according to the, according to the command of Jesus, that the Church can be aware of false prophets and can recognize a true or a false teacher.
And when the Pope especially anathematizes the Gospel and forbids the freedom of the gospel and the, and the preaching of faith alone and grace alone, then he shows himself to be a false teacher. And all that other authority is nothing at all.
So not only, I mean not only is the Pope wrong about his claims but cruel about all goes back to, I mean there's this kind of growing authority in the early Middle Ages that culminates in this bull unum sanctum which culminates in this ridiculous statement that it's necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
And, and this should just tell us everything that we need to know about the Pope and what he claims to be.
So I, there's more on this and I'm going to pull up some resources here.
But anyway, Pastor Packer, your thoughts on this?
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I really hate too the way, the way they kind of go about this especially like the Roman Catholic apologists online. Like one of the arguments they'll use related to this is oh look, since reformation there's 40,000 denominations. Right.
Give this absurd number. And I think it's. I've seen it through with Jordan Cooper, I've seen some others too that you could probably lump all the, the Protestants, the actual Protestants under 9 or 10 umbrellas.
Right. Which actually means there's probably less than maybe what's within the Roman Catholic Church itself.
That's one thing that frustrates me. They claim this unity and as if everybody under the Pope is all in agreement on everything.
But it doesn't take long to go looking and find there's all kinds of disagreements and I would argue even denominations with under the umbrella so called umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church.
And so I find the more you pull that thread of their various arguments, the more they fall apart. And this idea that they're the only true church because of xyz.
I've never even found the things they list as xyz like, oh, we're the true church because we're the only real church and everybody else is just all these 40,000 divisions. Well, I don't see that true on either statement. I don't see 40,000 divisions. I also don't see them being completely united.
And on and on it goes, whether it's what the Pope says about himself as you've got up here, or other various statements like they just don't hold water. I even saw a Roman Catholic apologist yesterday on, on X.
You know, he made the claim that Luther removed the, the Apocrypha books, which we all know is false. It's like a two minute right Internet search to find out that you lied.
But then also he misquoted Jerome on Jerome's view of the canon. And this guy like went through all of the claims and brought up all these quotes and just destroyed his argument. But of course, you know, the Roman Catholics will just say, well, it doesn't matter because this is what the Pope said. In fact, that kind of was the guy's response. Well, it doesn't really matter because this is what the Pope spoke and declared. So that's the end of the discussion. Yeah, but wait a minute. You just made, you made all these arguments just a moment ago from church history, but then when you were shown you were wrong from church history.
Now you say those arguments don't matter because the Pope said something different. Well, which is it?
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Yeah, here's the quote from Unum Sanctum.
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it's absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. I mean, just think about that and then to wonder if it's ever been. I mean this. So unum sanctum is referenced even in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I mean, it's not a. And there's a bunch of other crazy things in there. I'll maybe show you in a little bit. But here's the Vatican II says 1962. In the Church of Christ, the Roman Pontiff, the successor to Peter, whom Christ entrusted the feeding of his sheep and lambs, enjoy supreme, full, immediate and universal authority over the care of souls by divine institution. And that's in and outside of the Church.
So this PDF here, which you can click on, Will show you all of these. I've just Collect I think it's 20 pages of 12 pages of what the, all these quotes of the Pope about himself. So a Council of Florence is excerpted there, Vatican One is excerpted there. And you could just go through this just to see the claims that the Pope makes over himself. And this is, I mean kind of amazingly audacious claims about, about the Pope's authority and about salvation.
So this is, this is not, this is not a, a light thing. This is a pretty heavy thing to say. So I would maybe one we, I held it up but this resource, again it's free. If you get Rome examined and just click to download the PDF and you can, you can take a look at it.
The really wonderful thing about this is that it has so many footnotes. I mean the footnotes are the last hundred pages and it's just quotations of the Church Fathers. So this, this what you mentioned before that you know, the Catholic Church claims, hey, we have this ancient doctrine. This is just not, it's just not the case when you start reading the Church Fathers we start to see something different. So there's some resources here. I hope these will be helpful because
[00:16:48] Speaker B: I think it's important to point out too that nobody's. Nobody's answered Chemnitz ever. Right? No one's responded like it's a masterful four volume like just deconstruction of the Council of Trent and they've never written a response correct. Like no one's ever sat down and tried to argue him point by point.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Bellarmine tried and then Gerhard was the answer to Bellarmine. So Bellarmine tried to be the anti Chemnitz and I mean the Catholics will say that he did but then Gerhard responded to Bellarmine and that was the end of it. No, nobody, I mean nobody was going to respond to Gerhardt but I don't think Bellarmine, I don't think the response is a sufficient response. But they'll, they'll claim that, right?
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Well and that's what I'm getting at is that it wasn't like a no one went through because he goes through point by point, right? And go through church history in four volumes and no one, I've, I've never seen anyone, Bellarmine or anyone go through point by point and try to answer all of it. Like they'll pick out certain things, right, that they want to focus on But I've never seen anyone go through all point by point in response to all of it.
And I think it's because you can't Right. You can pick and choose some stuff that you think might be an easier fight or just ignore him or whatever.
And then when you get Gerhard jumping into it, it seems kind of insurmountable because if you read those guys, they quote the Church Fathers like, it's not just like little snippets here and there. It's just page after page of lengthy quotes.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: I mean, you know, this is the footnote section of the book. This is. And, and this is. And there's more actually in this volume of Chemnitz than there is in the original because we went and added all of those quotes from the Church Fathers to show it. So this is a. It's a. It's a particularly helpful resource for people who are. Because there are a lot of people who are interested in Rome and Roman Catholicism and the claims of Rome. Okay. God be praised. People want a church that's been around, but that.
This is. There's other options than Rome.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: All right. That'll be a fun one to read the comments. Okay.
That's right. We always get the best comments on those videos.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Question is, is the Pope the Antichrist according to Daniel chapter seven? I just. Did you. Did I even tell you about this? That when I was on vacation last week, I found this series of four articles from the old Lara Unvera, the old Lutheran Witness in German from 1913.
Detailed exegetical argument that the Little Horn of Daniel 7 is a prophecy of the Pope.
And I had the robot translate it from, from German into English for me. And it's. It's an amazing thing. Anyway, that'll get the comments going. We'll talk about that maybe next week.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Say, did you want to add that as our question right now?
We'll say it for next week. Them something to look forward to.
All right, next question. Basically, are Christians allowed to start or join revolutions?
So in one of your videos a month ago, you did a great job on the discussion about self defense.
What about the Christians response to revolts or revolutions? We have some places in scripture where the Judeans are told not to revolt. But then we have the Maccabean overthrowing of the Seleucid empire. Within their land there is self defense, but what about at a national level with the nation? I presume it will be similar to the self defense talk and also handled with. With invocation.
Thanks for your time and videos.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: I. So this is, this is God be praised. A very good question.
The, the.
The command that governs this is honor your father and your mother.
So the basic Christian posture is One of obedience to those in authority, if that obedience can be rendered without sin against God.
So we must obey God rather than man. That's always the first commandment, stands inviolate and that the Lord gave the other commandments as well. So when the council forbade Peter and the apostles from preaching the name of Jesus, they said, no, look, you don't have the authority to forbid us to preach in the Lord's name.
You can beat us and punish us and we'll accept the punishment for it, but we're not going to stop.
We must obey God rather than man. That's the command. But if we can obey man and God at the same time, this is always the Christian, always the Christian posture, which is difficult because we talk so much about leadership but very little about submissionship, which is the main thing that the Christian is called over and over to submit to those who rule over us. Even in Romans 13, which talks about this, where Paul's writing to the Romans, probably when Nero is the Caesar in Rome, which is unbelievable, this godless pagan Christian killing king. I mean Nero's the one who says, hey, you guys have been persecuted by the synagogue, now you'll be persecuted by the court. And he, and he takes it upon himself to, to make Rome an anti Christian institution. It's astonishing. And he's the one that is to be honored as the one who bears the sword.
I do not think that the, the, the, the Christian is a revolutionary.
Now there, I, I do think that there are times where you get basically an inner governmental war, what we normally refer to as a civil war, or where there's one power against another power.
And in those cases the Christian who can also be a soldier, can stand up and fight.
I think this is an important thing to say. I mean one of the, one of the, this comes back to the American Revolution and the Revolutionary War in the United States. And to say was it a good and godly thing or not. It's a complicated question.
It used to be a mark of the cool Lutherans that they would just say that the American Revolution was sinful because it was rebellious and shouldn't have happened. Well, that's just a very over simplistic understanding of the history there. It wasn't like there was a bunch of, it was a kind of a mob thing. There was a, there was a government in the United States that was declaring their independence from the rule of the King of England. So there's a, there's a ma. There's a question of magistrates. And this has to do with the doctrine of authority in different layers and levels.
And so I'm not ready to just say, hey, the American Revolution was. Was rebellious and therefore sinful. Some of our Lutheran fathers did and some did not.
And.
And it has to be that the Christian is able to fight in those places according to the authority that's over them.
So I do not think that the Christian is a revolutionary. I do think that the Christian can participate, can understand rightly, and have a good conscience in participating in the revolution of one part of the government or nation revolting against another according to the authority that they've been given. You want to make that make sense?
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Pastor Packer, I was gonna ask you, or have you read the Magdeburg Confession? Because, I mean, that comes into play here.
I thought they did a pretty good job because they have four levels of resistance and they're. They're pretty careful as far as, like, even with, like, a law, what they call a lawless tyrant, they're not like, hey, you should.
You should rebel, right? You don't have to obey. Like, they, they have four levels. And so there's places you can look some of this up online and. But there's also now been some newer translations of that confession that has some helpful things on this whole topic of at what point is it okay to resist government? And which point isn't it? And I mean, it's not binding on us as Lutherans. It wasn't, like, ever adopted by everyone, but I think it has some helpful things. At least wrestle and think this kind of issue because it gets complicated really fast. As you were acknowledging, like, like, even the American Revolution was very different than the French Revolution, right? Like, we use the term revolution, but a lot of people would say the American Revolution was not a revolution.
It gets into the whole issue of the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, which is what you were talking about. Like, there's an authority structure there. Like, the lesser magistrate has a duty to resist unlawful orders because they've sworn to uphold things. So, like, in our state or in your county, like, the sheriff is. Has a lot of authority to withstand evil encroachments that cross the line. Like, they should be the one saying, no, we're not going to enforce these laws. These are wicked, these are evil, right? That's. That's their duty. That's their vocation.
And so they. And they cover a lot of that kind of thing in. In the Magda Confession, especially this lesser magistrate idea, which they are drawing on. Luther later in his life, like, gets into some of this too this idea that there is an authority structure there and you should be following it.
Everyone just doesn't do what they want. But you should be encouraging leaders, local leaders, to be like, hey, you need to tell the governor. You need to tell whoever, no, that's. That's illegal. It's unjust. We won't enforce that. We won't do that. And so. But again, all of that gets.
It's. Sometimes people want really easy, straightforward, pat answers on some of the stuff, and sometimes there isn't, always because it's going to. It's going to depend on what's going on.
So that's why I find that work helpful. At least they really wrestled with, okay, given what God's word says, when is it okay for us to resist, to rebel? What should that actually look like?
Does it look like anarchy? Or does it have even our resistance have order? And their argument was, it does have order. There are authorities who should be leading this. It shouldn't just be doing whatever you want.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: This is especially important. We're going to have to wrestle with this now because we have the whole conversation around Christian nationalism. And in what way should Christians engage in government? And in what way should government be shaped by Christian ideas and doctrines?
It's very important for us to remember that this is in a lot of ways a privileged question, that sometimes the Christians are just in prison.
Sometimes the Christians are just being martyred or thrown out. Sometimes the Christians are under the tyranny of those who are given rule and they have nothing to say about anything. And still they praise the Lord and the Lord's kingdom. I mean, this is very important when Jesus says that my kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight for it.
That when we are fighting and the Christian can fight, the Christian fights in defense of their family, in defense of their own life, in defense of their nation. The Christian fights, but they're not fighting in defense of the kingdom of God that's not authorized. And so we have to be really clear about what we're fighting for. And that even if we do have a right understanding of Christendom or a Christian nation, that it's not the kingdom of heaven that is different. The rule of Jesus in the hearts of men by the Spirit, through the word of law and gospel, is a different kingdom.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: All right.
You throw out lots of stuff to get people riled up this week.
The comments are going to be so much fun.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: I'm glad that you look at them, not me.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: I'll send you the best ones.
All Right. This one is on looking to comfort their boyfriend's conscience, they wanted some guidance. That's for something that's been weighing on them.
They were raised as an LCMS pastor's kid, but the boyfriend grew up in a Christian home without much constant church involvement. His family attended a Baptist church for a few years, but left because they felt it was judgmental. Every few months he experiences panic attacks about dying. He says they stem from uncertainty about whether heaven is real or whether the Bible can be trusted.
His mom has also suggested that the Bible may have been tampered with, particularly mentioning the King James version, which I think adds to his doubts.
I want to respond to him in a way that is compassionate and healogically sound, but I'm not always sure how to articulate the reassurance. Well, do you have any advice on how I can support him in these conversations?
[00:29:32] Speaker A: So first, any sort of question like this, which involves also pastoral care is it's going to be really good to have a regular conversation with your own pastor. And if you don't have that, if you go to Wolfmuller Co about find a church and put in the zip code there and we've got a team of people that'll look for good churches for you, that's not just for, for anybody who's watching. If you don't, if you can't say this is my church and this is my pastor, then that is, I mean that is on the top of your checklist to do this week. You, you, every Christian ought to be able to say that's my church, that's my pastor.
So if we can help you find a church, let us do it. And because this is especially pastoral care question because the devil is, when the devil is pushing you into this space, this, this kind of, this doubt where your conscience, your mind, your heart is unsettled.
It, it's a, it's a multifaceted spiritual attack and there's not just one way out. So there's apologetic arguments which are good. And some of those apologetic arguments are going to be really helpful for, for some people and, and others are going to be really helpful for other people. For example, the apologetic argument that helps me the most when I am experiencing doubts about the reality of God's Word is the everything's weird argument, the, the unlikeliness of everything that I know to be true. In other words, I start to think about like how unlikely is it that Jesus is going to return in glory, that the dead are going to be raised incorruptible, that the The Lord is ruling. I just think that seems so improbable to me. But then I realize that it's improbable that I was born. It's improbable that I'm on YouTube and that you're listening to me. It's improbable that Texas is shaped like it is. And that Pastor Packer, you know, is. Is exactly who he is. And his. All his unique packerness and everything, I mean, reality, everything is weird. It's weird that the world is like it. It's weird that history unfolded like it is. So everything's improbable. So the improbability of things does not mean that it's. That it can't be true. In fact, everything that's true is also improbable. So that this is an apologetic argument that I have to tell myself a lot of times, and it's. It's helpful, very helpful for me, but it might be of no help at all to the. To the listener's boyfriend with his doubts. It might be. What might be really helpful for him is to think about the resurrection or to think about the spiritual gifts or to think about the miracles that were performed by Jesus or the prophecies that were fulfilled by him. In other words, there's different apologetic arguments, but oftentimes even it's not just the mind that's unsettled, but the conscience also.
So.
So the veracity of the Scriptures is built apologetically from the truth of the resurrection, which is just a historical thing. Jesus was a man who was crucified and died and then on the third day rose again. And his resurrection is his claim to not only be the divine man, but also to be the author of the Holy Scriptures. And so we look at the reliability of the Scriptures because we see the resurrection of Jesus. So in other words, these are kind of various different apologetic arguments that are helpful in different ways. But to know that this man Jesus wasn't just dead and raised on the third day, but he was all of those things to save us, to forgive our sins, to give us a good conscience, to make a way for sinners to be rescued from this fallen state that we've arranged and managed for ourselves into the eternal state of glory which the Lord is making for us.
So.
So there's so many wonderful and comforting truths that are there. But again, this is. These are really important to be unfolded in. In that context, in the flexibility of
[00:33:39] Speaker B: pastoral care especially, too, because sometimes these things, there's something else behind it. Sometimes, perhaps, I mean, we don't. I don't know this person at all. I don't have very little information. But it's possible they have guilt over something they've done that's really burdening their conscience and that's driving the panic attacks and other things, and that hasn't been dealt with. Which, again, that's why you need to go see your pastor, because you can talk to him. I've had it on many occasions. I'm sure you've had this too. Someone comes to you to talk, something's bothering them, and they start talking and you say, hey, did you realize you just confessed sin?
They didn't come there intending to confess sin, but they confess sin. And then you ask them, hey, would you like to be forgiven for that? Would you like to receive the absolution? They're like, yeah, that sounds pretty great. And then you walk them through private confession, absolution. And they didn't come there looking for that. They came there because this thing was bothering them or bugging them or whatever. They start talking and you realize, hey, that sounds like the issue is there's just some sin that's, that's weighing on you and you just didn't realize it.
And so I don't know if that is the case here, but for anyone struggling with this kind of stuff, you'd be surprised sometimes that your conscience is bothering you and you're having these, these thoughts and doubts because you just haven't dealt with maybe some sin that just nagging you and, and weighing on your conscience, and you just don't realize it. So another reason to go talk to your pastor, there's something about the fear
[00:35:00] Speaker A: of death, and this is in Hebrews chapter two, where it talks about the fear of death holds us in bondage.
And, and it could a lot of times, especially for, for young adults who are like, thinking about their own mortality for the first time, this is a really almost overwhelming experience. It's helpful to almost have died a few times. And then you're like, okay, you know, you. To get up close to the edge and I mean, don't do this on purpose, but the Lord will. I, you know, I got to get Covid a couple years back and, and I, I pretend like I almost died. I think I, you know, I think Kerry thinks I almost did. I was close enough.
And, and to say, oh, well, that wasn't, you know, that's not too bad.
So, so. But when you're, when you're kind of wrestling through your own mortality for the first time, it becomes Overwhelming. It is important.
One of the things to realize is that if you believe in Jesus or you don't, you still are going to die.
So, like, what your doctrine is and the reality of your death are two totally different things.
So sometimes, because Christianity makes us face up to our mortality and the judgment day, then we think, well, if I can distance myself from Christianity, I can distance myself from death. That's just.
I mean, it's wrong. And once you say it, you. And you realize it, you're like, oh, okay, that's, that's a ridiculous thought. I gotta, I gotta die anyway. So now Christianity is saying, there's something here. There's a help for me not only in life, but also in death. There's a way for me to stand before the judgment seat of God which everyone will face. That's appointed for man wants to die and then to be judged. And there's a way for me to stand before the judgment seat of God unafraid to be able to stand instead of be crushed by it. And that is to be covered in the righteousness of Christ and the robes of Jesus. And so now suddenly the fear of death through the Holy Spirit starts to unclaw the, the devil who holds onto our heart by the fear of death.
And that's nice. There's a spiritual freedom there.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: You remind me of during COVID I use this as a sermon illustration. Edgar Allan Poe has this great story.
A lot of people know him for various reasons. I don't think a lot of people know this short story, though.
It's about the plague coming to this town.
And all the rich people decide to hide from the plague by having this big costume party, right? And so they, they're having this party and it's all locked up, invitation only. But the plague dresses up to get into the costume party.
And, you know, everyone dies as they're trying to hide from death because they think they're rich, they're behind the walls, they're safe, and, and the plague goes there. And it's just really brilliant because it shows this very thing, right? You cannot think about death, but you're still going to die. You can hide from it. You can, you know, you can pay lots of money for the best doctors and the best food and the best healthcare and all these things, but you still are going to die.
And a lot of times people, like you said, avoid Christianity because they don't want to think about it, but you can not think about it, but it's still going to happen. I mean, that's probably One of the greatest gifts Covid gave a lot of people was that it allowed them to see the reality that, hey, we all actually are going to die and we better be ready for it.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: There's this wisdom in it. This is the. Remember that you are mortal wisdom.
Moses in the very oldest of psalms teaches us to number our days and this is it. That each day is. But every one day is going to be the last. So this is today.
Can you, can you see this? No. Today is day 17,745 for me.
And one day it'll be the last one. It'll be the last time I tick off those numbers. You know, it'll be. That's. What is it for you? If I'm 17,704, you're probably like, I don't know, 10,000.
[00:38:53] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
Aren't we like the same age?
[00:38:57] Speaker A: I'm sure. So, so we have to, you know, we're number. And these days are going to come to an end. And that's the heart of wisdom, actually.
Give us a heart of wisdom so that we can number our days so that we know that this, this life is a mortal life.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: I've been alive 12,817 days.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: There you go, 12,800.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: See, I've got 5,000, 5,000 days on me.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: More days than you.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: You're older than I thought.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Maybe I did the math wrong.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Well, we don't want to ruin it though.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. I lose track. I'm like, he.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: No way. He's 17,000 days old.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: You don't look a day over 16,000.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: We have a kind of an interesting question. In fact, they call it weird themselves.
Are mirrors portals to spiritual stuff?
So, weird question, bear with me. What are your thoughts on the spirituality, for lack of a better word, of mirrors, specifically mirrors being portals or conduits to the spiritual realm.
I have two mirrors in my bedroom that are facing toward each other and my husband is strongly opposed to this. My opinion is that they are just normal mirrors without intentional misuse thoughts.
And I did a quick search of this and apparently this is a question that comes up a fair often because if you just start typing in our mirrors, portals, like a whole bunch of related questions to spirits, hell, etc. Etc.
Pop up. So apparently they are not alone in asking this.
So are mirrors portals to this kind of stuff?
[00:40:40] Speaker A: I'm just thinking about what the Bible says about mirrors and it does not. So it does not give us any warning about this. I don't think we can.
We can See any sort of spiritual danger in mirrors, Although let's think about it. So Paul says first Corinthians 13, now I see in a mirror dimly.
Then we will see face to face.
Are there other mirrors that we have in the. I'm just trying to think of the.
Oh yeah. James 1.
The man who hears the word and then doesn't do it is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and then immediately goes away and forgets what he looks like.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: I do, I have a list here
[00:41:22] Speaker A: that might help get more mirror passages.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Well, not passages, but where this came from, it looks like it came from. So this happened gradually, it looks like over time. So in the ancient world they were believed to reveal spiritual truths. In the Greco Roman world, like magicians used them for divination and Renaissance occultism. They believe spirits appeared in mirrors and then folk superstition, they became something called soul thresholds. And then in spiritualism they became spirit contact devices.
And then in modern horror films, they're often portrayed as literal portals. So there is kind of a, a path where they get here, but you'll notice none of it is from,
[00:42:09] Speaker A: it's
[00:42:09] Speaker B: not from the Bible, but there does seem to be. Seems like it's use in various magic or divination rights.
And then it carried over into folk stuff and then into various genres of literature and things have given people that idea.
So, you know, as long as you're not using it like that.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: I saw it, I saw, I did a tour of the Mormon Tabernacle in Albuquerque before they consecrated and they're in their room for where the couples go to get married for time and eternity. They have these two huge mirrors on either side so that you, you get this kind of, of when you're, when you're there doing whatever secret marriage thing is happening in the, in the tabernacle. So, so there you go. I, I would say, okay, here, here's, here's what I want to say about this. So there are spiritual and occult things and we do not want to deny the reality of them especially.
And, and here's a problem.
If someone thinks that a mirror is functioning as a spiritual portal, then even if it's not, that thought of the mirror, I think can be exploited by the spirits and the demons.
So remember, in spiritual warfare, the number one thing is that we are not authorized to be afraid of the devil.
We are not authorized, so we are to fear God. And when the Lord says fear me, he's saying that everything else that you're tempted to fear, you Do. Don't. Don't do it. Tanata. This is. This is what? So. So that we're not authorized to fear death, nor are we authorized to fear the devil. In fact, the. The James tells us, resist the devil and he will flee from you. The direction of fleeing in spiritual warfare is not us fleeing the devil, but the devil fleeing from us because we're not. Because of any sort of strength that we have, God forbid, but for us fights the mighty one whom God himself elected. And one little word now sends the devil away. We are clothed in the armor of light so that we can stand in the evil day, having done all to stand with the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of the righteousness of Christ, the belt of the truth of God's word, the readiness to preach the gospel, the forgiveness of sins, a clean conscience. To the pure.
John says it like this. To the pure, Paul. To the pure, all things are pure. But to those who are defiled, everything is unclean. So if you have a clean conscience, a mirror is no threat or danger to you. If you have a defiled conscience, who knows?
The devil can work with a blank wall where the mirror is taken down.
So our goal is to fear God, to rejoice in the forgiveness of sins, and then to know that it doesn't matter.
I mean, if your mirror. If the mirror of a Christian is a demonic portal, it becomes a portal for the demons to leave and run away from you, not for them to get to you. This is the point. If you. If we have Christ, these things don't matter, and we. And we don't need to worry about them. That's. That would be my thought on this.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: I think that's fantastic. Just for the keen observers who are watching this and notice the reflection behind you and the. The shape that moved across it. My guess is probably Carrie.
Is she home?
Because it was pretty funny because you're talking about this, and I saw the reflection move across. I'm. Someone's gonna be like, he's talking about it. And there's one right there.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: She put. She put a note on my desk, on my window there.
So there.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: So there you go, everyone. Because someone's gonna notice that and be like, no, he was talking about it. And I saw it in the. The reflection back there.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: That's wild.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: Maybe I should have said anything. May. May have been more fun if I had.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: You're talking about the. And on your glasses.
Yes. See, the.
[00:46:27] Speaker B: All right, here's going on. Corporate confession, Absolution, and who is it for?
So suppose English Language differentiated between singular and plural forms of the second person possessive, your singular and your plural. Would the your and your sins be singular or plural in corporate absolution?
I've always received this gift as a personal word from our Lord given to me and to each of us individually. Individually. However, thinking of the congregational context, I wonder if the limitations of the English language have obscured another meaning.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: The answer is because we have the old TLH and page 15 has the old English, which distinguishes between the the singular and the ye plural.
I. I remember like this, by the way, that the for the these, it's 1, so that's singular, and for the use it's 2 plural. So in the Old English, you, ye, your plural, the thou, whatever the other one is, is singular. So let's see upon this, your confession plural.
Almighty God, merciful Father, I, a poor Muslim, confess unto thee singular, all my sins and iniquities.
I pray thee of thy boundless. That's singular. For the sake of the Holy. Here it comes. On this, your confession plural, I, by virtue of my office as called and ordained servant of the Word, announce the grace of God unto all of you in the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So that is a plural. What's going on there now? That's nice, because it's a plural. That's also in the Lord's Supper.
So that when Jesus says, take and eat, this is my body given for you. That's the, you know, Greek has the difference between singular and plural.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: Plural.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: And that's the plural there. And this is part of the basis of our understanding of the corporate nature, the public nature of the Lord's Supper.
It's given for y'. All.
So that when we come to the Supper, we do come as individual sinners. And the Lord does deal with us and our sin, but he deals with us together with his whole family, together with all of our brothers and sisters in Christ.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: It's also interesting because in Lord's Supper, we. When we hand the body or the blood to them, we say, this is given for you, that one being singular there, because we're talking directly to that one person, right? So in the actual liturgy, it's. But when we're actually distributing it, then it's singular.
Was it Francis Peeper that talked about. Right. The corporate absolution is like taking a handful of gold coins and just tossing them out to everybody.
And then whoever hears it individually and says, yeah, that's Mine grabs hold of it. Whereas private confessions, like taking that gold coin and like, putting it right into their hands. Oh, that's cool, right? So you're taking it and putting it right into their hand. I've always found that, like, a helpful distinction. Like, you're still receiving it, and if you believe, then, yeah, it is individually for you, but it's being thrown out to everybody who's present. It's not just being thrown out to you. It's being. Those gifts are being given to all that are present and who. Those who have faith receive it and those who don't let the gold smack them in the head and, like, fall to the ground or whatever.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: And it's not like I can't res. It's. It's not that I. If it's plural, it doesn't mean it's not for me individually.
[00:49:42] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I am part of the you that the Lord is dealing with there. So.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son is like, oh, well, that's everybody else. Well, I'm part of the world, so. So we're part of the y'. All.
That's. And so we receive it as individuals. We can't receive it any other way, but we receive it as individuals in the context of the Lord's whole body.
It's almost like. And here's this important distinction, because evangelicalism wants to make everything about having a relationship with Jesus.
And they will use the language of the bride of Christ. I am the bride of Christ. But this is. The point is that Jesus does not have, like, millions of brides. He has one bride, the church. And we. We are part of that church. And we. So we receive from him directly from him, but we receive from him as part of his body, together with all of the. All of the other Christians. So. So we have an individual relationship with Christ, I suppose, because we. Because we are individuals, we can only be ourselves. We can't be anybody else.
But.
But the Lord Jesus is giving us those gifts as he serves his whole church, all his people.
[00:51:00] Speaker B: Do you say at your church, because you're in Texas now, do you say, I forgive yalls sins or all yalls? Or do you. Is that you're in Austin and they don't do as much there?
[00:51:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Austin doesn't even. They wouldn't even know what I'm talking about.
[00:51:16] Speaker B: All right, I. You know, this question actually comes up probably this next one fairly, fairly often in various forms. Basically, are you gonna be Married in heaven or not.
So if God institute marriage before the fall, then why won't we be married in heaven? I mean, marriage was there before the world was filled with sin and all that. Will marriage be a thing in the world to come? What happens to our relationship if marriage no longer exists in the new earth?
[00:51:45] Speaker A: We have to the question, though the text that deals with this is Jesus on Holy Tuesday is confronted by the Pharisees, no, the Sadducees, who didn't believe in the resurrection. And they had their gotcha question. Remember, they say there was a lady who got married to a man and he died. And so she married his brother and he died and married his brother and he died. And until she married all seven brothers and all seven died, which you have to think about what it would have been like to be the fifth brother.
Like what?
You know, you just buried your four older brothers and now the lady's like, you're next.
Okay, that. Well, that happened. I mean, that's the whole Judah and Tamar thing. Remember, one boy, the other boy died and then, well, go till the end. He.
So anyway, Sadducees thought they had this all sorted out. And Jesus says, you neither know the scriptures or the power of. In the. In the world to come, we will be like the angels, neither married nor given in marriage.
So the lack of marriage in the new heaven and the new earth is because according to Jesus, we will be angelic.
That's what we have to unpack now. The covenant of marriage, like every covenant, is a. It ends at the death of one of those who makes the covenant. That's why we say in the marriage rite, till death us do part, which is wrong in all the movies. In the movies, they say, till death do us part, which meet, which would mean we're going to be apart until we die.
So then we fix it in the, in the, in the hymnal and say till death us do part, which means until death parts us. And. But everyone gets it wrong because they know the movies.
So I actually just say till death parts us, which I don't know why we don't just put that in the hymnal. No one asked me about it, but that's the point. Death ends the covenant of marriage so that it's true and in fact good and godly. If there's a widow or a widower who is then married, that. That is not adultery. That is not an insult to the first marriage that was given. That first covenant of marriage ends at death. And that's okay, even though it's like almost ridiculous and impossible for us to think about it. Like, you don't want married couples to be thinking about how, oh, you know what, my spouse dies and then I'll be free. But this is the point of the covenant. And Paul will actually argue from that in Romans about how the covenant will end it death.
Okay, but then the question is, well, what is the nature of our existence in the new heaven and new earth where we have our spiritual bodies such that marriage is no longer a reality?
And at the basic, most simple level, it's this is that there's no more children.
There's not the coming together of marriage for the purpose of having and raising children. All who are brought through the judgment into the new heaven and new earth are the full number that the Lord has determined. And so there's no more, there's no more new human beings.
The, the, the command to be fruitful and multiply has then been kept and it's now concludes now the so, so we, we know our existence in heaven is not a.
It lacks the intimacy that the marriage society has the union of husband and wife for the purpose coming together to have children. And that's the angelic point there, that the. There's no baby angels. In spite of all the Hallmark cards, etc, etc. The angels were not created to have little baby angels. In fact, every time we see an angel, it's a grown man soldier in the Bible and that's the angelic existence. Now the Lutheran fathers like Luther will talk about this and say that the Lord intended for Adam and Eve also to outgrow having children. Can you imagine, like if Eve and Adam and Eve were still around like 7,000 years old and they're still having babies. Eve's like, okay, even though there's no pain, but there was a sense that they would grow into these. Not only grandparents, but great, great, great, great grandparents and they would become spiritual leaders. In fact, the idea is that they would reach a state of glory and enter into an angelic existence. That's not a, it's not an uncorporeal existence. They still have bodies, they're still eating food. But they're almost like Jesus at the transfiguration. They've got this radiance about them and that that's how we were supposed to grow into that radiant existence. The fall not only was a setback, it was the opposite. It was moving away from that glory, but that in the resurrection that glory is restored so that there's a way that we will know one another in the resurrection at last.
It's not like we're going to be strangers to each other, that Carrie and I are going to be strangers. You and Destiny are going to be strangers to each other. We'll know each other in some ways more profoundly and more wonderfully in the resurrection than we do now.
And finally, you know, I can't wait for the full packerness. I think that this is the, the all of the glory that the. The full package here for Packer. And we'll. And I'll say finally, I know, Andrew, I see you in all the glory in which the Lord created you and which was covered up by your sin and all the stuff. And we'll know each other in that way in a profound and wonderful way. But it'll be a different kind of relationship than what the Lord gives to husband and wife here in, in this life. And then maybe one more quick thing and I'll toss it over.
The history that the Lord gives to us in this life is not.
It's part of the glory of the new heaven and new earth.
So that my kids are my kids and my father and mother are my father and my mother and my grandchildren and great grandchildren and even the great, great, great, great great grandparents that I never knew and the great, great, great great grandchildren. If the Lord stalls that I'll never meet on this life, that we're all part of that family and we rejoice in that and that we see in history. The Lord's working. So we will praise the Lord in the new heaven and the new earth for the gift of marriage that he gives more than we're even able to now, so that history and reality doesn't disappear.
It's sanctified and it's understood from the heavenly perspective, which gives God unending glory.
So that's an important part of it too. So that history that we share together with our families and especially husband and wife together, that'll be part of the. That'll be part of our particular praise that we offer to God in the new heaven and the new earth.
[00:58:29] Speaker B: I looked this up because I was curious. It doesn't seem like there are any.
What we would call orthodox Christians, Christians who hold to like, what the Bible actually teaches. So we're not including Mormons in this discussion here.
They're the exception, but they're not. They don't fit our definition of orthodox Christians. So it doesn't really matter. I can't find any that actually hold that marriage continues.
It's interesting because you figure with all the differences we have with different church bias. This is one thing it seems like everyone's completely united on.
Although I did find something interesting and I think this is maybe helpful.
There are a lot of Christians who hope it's true, right? Like, that's where this question comes from. There are Christians who hope they want it to be true, that they will still be married in the world to come because they can't imagine life apart from their spouse, which is. And if that's you and you hear this and you're like, sad about it, then give thanks to God that you have such a great marriage, that you're actually sad that it's going to end in this life. I mean, that's right.
You may not like our answer, even though I thought that was a wonderful explanation of how we'll even appreciate it when we finally get there. But if you look at that and think are a little sad about it, you should rejoice because that means you actually love your spouse enough that you actually want it to continue. So that's. That's really fantastic. Like, you have a great marriage and you should delight in that and be happy about that and give thanks to God for that and know that you will get to indeed see your spouse in the world to come. But it'll be an entirely new and as Pastor Wolfinger explained, greater way than you do now. So. But rejoice that you feel that way, that you have that hope, because that means you have a great marriage.
All right, that's our last question for the day.
[01:00:13] Speaker A: Wow. Thanks for the question today.
Blessed Annunciation Day. Pastor Packer, to you. Thanks for sending the questions. Wolfmother Co contact is how you can send us more questions. Let's see what we got. We're running low.
[01:00:27] Speaker B: No, no, we are not.
[01:00:30] Speaker A: Thanks for sending those questions in. That's marvelous.
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