Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Hey, Podcast theologians. That does not sound as good as YouTube theologians. It's Pastor Ryan Wolfmuller here. Pastor St. Paul and Jesus Deaf Lutheran churches in Austin, Texas, trying out and we, you know, this podcast kind of comes and goes according to my own whims. But here's the newest whim. I'd like to basically use this audio podcast to answer your questions. It'll probably be long format theological ramblings and question answering.
[00:00:26] So you can send in your questions at Wolfmuller co contact. Here's the end. I just got a cup of coffee. We're just going to go for it. By the way, happy summer for you theologians. We got a couple of opportunities coming up. Don't miss the Issues Etc. Conference. Well, okay, look, if you're up north around Chicago, Issues Etc. Conference, I think it's 7-18-19. That's a great lineup. We are down here in Austin hosting our own theological conference on how to preach a sermon with Todd Peppercorn. And then on Saturday, July 19, if that's a Saturday, whatever Saturday is closest to July 19, how to listen to a sermon. That's a free conference that we're putting on. That's also Vicar's Farewell.
[00:01:07] Wow. Farewell Weekend. So stay for the 20th and all the festivities. If you're hanging around Austin, Texas, you are invited. Okay, here's the first question from Stephen Blank, who says third use of the law is the topic Is the third use of the law or just the second use in disguise?
[00:01:24] Is it the third use of the law or second in disguise? Is it a weaponized use of sanctification?
[00:01:30] Pastors try to preach the third use at the end of their sermons. How do they even know which use they're doing? Look, I don't have a problem with the third use. It has a problem with me.
[00:01:38] Good question, Stephen. Okay, remembering the uses of the law, or maybe the functions of the law that we're taught to confess, even from the book of Concord, we can't forget that we have an article in the formula of Concord 1577 on the third use of the law. And Stephen, it's always good to go back and take a look at that. But just a reminder of the uses. So the first use is the civil use. And this is the idea that not only has God written down his law on the commandments, on the tablets which he gave to the people of Israel, but he's also written them in stone, sorry, in our hearts. He's written them in nature. It's part of the moral law that, that we are aware of. So I remember Todd Wilkin on Issues Etc said that the first use of the law is to keep us from killing and eating each other, which is probably pretty good. It's a constraint to crime. And you know, and this is just maybe an interesting point, but that a huge part of our, of our philosophical reflection on the reality of God actually comes back to crime.
[00:02:44] A lot of our politics, a lot of our philosophy, a lot of our ethics are dealing with the reality that there are people who do terrible things, unimaginable things. That reality forces us to say something. So we have the first use of the law, the curb of the law, to keep society in order. The second use of the law, which is also the chief use, I think it's something of note that the second use is the chief use, the most important use, and that is to show us our sin. This is sometimes called in the catechism the mirror of the law, because the law shows us that we have broken God's law.
[00:03:22] And here's a really amazing truth that the Holy Spirit has to take up the law and use it in this way. Apart from the Holy Spirit, we can't see it. This is why Jesus says, I'll send the Holy Spirit and he'll convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment. That conviction of sin because the world does not believe in me is the work of the Holy Spirit.
[00:03:45] Remember, GK Chesterton said that the most obvious Christian truth is original sin. And remember when GK Chesterton said that he was wrong because it is not obvious to us that we are original sinners.
[00:04:02] It might be obvious to us that we are not perfect, that we've done things wrong, that we've made mistakes.
[00:04:09] That might be obvious to us, but it is not obvious that we are corrupt all the way down in every bit of our nature, that even before we sin, we are sinners.
[00:04:25] Luther says in the small called articles that original sin is so deep and profound a corruption that we cannot even observe it in ourselves. It has to be taught to us from the Holy Scriptures, which is so important. I mean, it's almost unbelievably important that we confess that we have to learn original sin left to ourselves, hey, what kind of person are you? And everybody says, a good person. Well, have you done everything right? Well, no. But to err is human. Everyone makes mistakes. So the Holy Spirit has to come with a law and show us that we are sinners that have deserved God's wrath. We just had it recently in the readings where Paul says, I wouldn't have known covetousness unless the law said, you shall not covet.
[00:05:05] So that covetousness, the Ninth and Tenth Commandments, you shall not covet. It's like the B2 bomber of sins. It flies below the radar of the conscience. And unless you have someone alert you to its presence that it's wrong to covet, to want what you don't have, we don't even have a capacity, a natural capacity, to say that that's wrong. Okay? So third use is the accusing use of the law that shows us our sin and our need for a savior. This is why it's the chief use, because it's the use that gets us to the contrition of repentance, that first part of repent.
[00:05:38] Then there's the third use.
[00:05:39] And the third use. And here's how I would like to define the third use. Sometimes we call it a guide or a roadmap or a map.
[00:05:47] It's specifically for the Christians. So while the first use is for everybody, and the second use is for sinners, which is also everybody, the third use is for the baptized. And here, Stephen. And so sometimes we like to do it like this is the encouragement of the law. This is where the law comes along and tells us what we should do. Maybe two or three points on this. Number one, we need the third use because we still have the sinful flesh.
[00:06:12] And in that way, if you can imagine that you are spirit and flesh battling it out, the third use is an incredible tool because the Holy Spirit will use it to subdue the flesh. You don't want to sin, but your flesh does. So you're fighting against the flesh. And one of the greatest tools that you use to fight against the flesh is the law that says, don't do that. If you do that, God will be mad, you'll be punished, etc.
[00:06:36] Also, we do not become gnostic when it comes to sanctification. In other words, we believe that the rebuke of the law is outside of us. We believe that the declaration of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins, is outside of us. And we believe that the instruction of the law is also outside of us, that the Lord is pleased to tell us what we ought to do. So it's not like we have to look inside of ourselves to see instinctively what we want to do. No, we look to the law of God to see what we ought to do. And the third point for the third use of the law is this.
[00:07:14] I would like to suggest that there are good works that are unavailable to Us apart from faith.
[00:07:20] And when we have faith now, all of a sudden, a number of good works that we're called to do by the law open up for us. I'll give you an example. Faith. Ah, sorry.
[00:07:34] I'll give you an example. Let's try that again. I'll give you an example. Prayer.
[00:07:38] You. Apart from faith. You cannot pray. The unbeliever cannot pray. There is no prayer apart from knowing that God is and that he's a rewarder of those who seek him.
[00:07:50] So the command to pray is a third use of the law.
[00:07:55] And here's another. To trust in God when dying.
[00:07:58] You cannot do that apart from faith.
[00:08:01] To love like Jesus loved. When Jesus says, I give you a new commandment that you love one another, like. Wait a minute. That sounds an awful lot like the old commandment, love one another. But Jesus says, love one another like I have loved you, which means to suffer and even to die for our friends and even for our enemies. Now, that kind of love is only available with faith if you know that God is going to welcome you when you die and that he's not mad at you.
[00:08:27] To suffer with patience, to leave room for wrath. In fact, when you look at the Book of Concord, this is an interesting thing. Whenever Melanchthon is listing the good works that we do, he doesn't just list the outward good works of chastity and generosity and obedience to parents and going to church. He lists these inward works of patience in affliction, quietness when dying, prayer when commending ourselves to God, under all sorts of crosses.
[00:08:59] So that third use is really the category of good works that are available only to faith. I think it's helpful. Now, Stephen makes this point. Look, I don't have a problem with the third use. It has a problem with me. Because we are still in the flesh.
[00:09:12] Every command of God will always accuse our sinful nature.
[00:09:19] But here's the Roman seventh dilemma, and maybe this will be the last point on this question.
[00:09:26] When Paul talks about in Romans 7, the good that I would, I do not do, and the good that I, the evil that I don't want to do, that's what I do. And who will deliver me from this body of death?
[00:09:35] He's wrestling with this battle that we all have between the Spirit and the flesh. And if you want to think of it, the Spirit. Okay, here's how I like to think of the Spirit in us. Is it our Spirit or the Holy Spirit? If you could imagine, your Spirit is like a. Is like the place that the Holy Spirit has carved out in which he dwells in you.
[00:09:55] And before baptism, that your spirit is dead. It's filled with darkness and demons. But now when Christ claims you as his own, the devil is removed, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you. So your spirit is in some ways activated and made alive by the presence of the Holy Spirit. And that's that new man in you that's created in the image of God, that's recreated in the image of God and wants to serve God. Now that is battling with your sinful flesh, with the old Adam, with the old nature.
[00:10:25] And they're back and forth, back and forth, battling. Now, the Romans 7 question is, what side do I identify with?
[00:10:32] And this I think is incredibly practical, because do I identify with the new man and I feel the pressure to sin coming from something that feels, not me, my own sinful flesh, or do I identify with my sinful flesh and I feel the pressure to serve God and to follow his commandments as something like, external to me that's kind of pushing me in a way I don't want to go.
[00:10:59] And I think that one of the keys to Romans chapter seven is that the I for you, Stephen, for all you who are listening, the I identifies with the Spirit, with the new man, with the confidence that we belong to the Lord Jesus and there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And even the sin that our flesh tries to add on to our good works via motives and whatever, even that is purged away by faith because we trust in God.
[00:11:32] And it's me putting off the flesh, which it's not even a real part of me anymore. And when I die, when that flesh is finally peeled away from my soul by death and peeled away from my body by the resurrection, then I will finally be me.
[00:11:49] That that flesh is an external invader to who I am because Christ has remade me.
[00:11:56] And in that way, the third use of the law becomes this wonderful, marvelous tool that the Holy Spirit's using to help us grow in disgust toward our own sinful flesh and rejoice that the Lord's putting it away from us and we'll put it away and we'll put it away in the Resurrection. So I hope that's helpful. Stephen, great question. Next Eva asks, I'm just reading these emails.
[00:12:23] This is me. No prayer.
[00:12:25] This is me.
[00:12:27] You'll have to endure my misspeaking and everything. Eva says, Howdy, passion. I've been struggling for quite some time with the infamous pendulum of pride and despair.
[00:12:36] I find myself returning to the same sins. I know that as Christians, we're both sinners and saints. Hey, same theme. My biggest fear is that I'm a fraud. My faith is not genuine. I'll be condemned. Please give me some encouragement. Perhaps a good way to think about Christian imposter syndrome in light of the gospel. Thanks for your work, Eva. Thank you, Eva, for your question. Now, this idea, the pendulum of pride and despair, it became a cornerstone of this little book. Has American Christianity failed? But it really is taken from a passage in the Book of Concord that talks about how apart from the gospel, you really only have two options.
[00:13:12] It's either Peter, I'll never forsake you, or Judas just dying in despair. It's either pride the Pharisees or despair, King Saul falling on a sword.
[00:13:23] It's one or the other. Because if you just have the law, which is sitting there evaluating all the time, I mean, the law is just speaking. But our conscience receives the law as an evaluating statement. And so your conscience is always making this judgment, accusing or excusing. And that's really it. It's either accusing you and pushing you towards despair. Woe is me. Look, I'm miserable.
[00:13:43] Or it's lifting us up.
[00:13:47] Look, look how great I am, boy. God is. How great it is that God has me on his team.
[00:13:52] You know, these are kind of the only two options.
[00:13:54] Now, the hope, Eva. And this is probably First John, chapter five.
[00:14:03] I better find this passage.
[00:14:06] Like I said, First John, chapter three. This is one of my favorite passages, and I can never remember where it is.
[00:14:13] Let's see. It is in first John 3. 18. My little children, let us not love in word or tongue, but in deed and truth. And by this we know that we are of the truth and shall assure our hearts before him.
[00:14:26] For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things.
[00:14:34] Beloved. If our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. Now, that, Eva, is a marvelous and key passage. If our heart condemns us, we have one who is greater than our heart.
[00:14:46] And this is the key to jumping off of this pendulum of pride and despair. It is to, in some ways, not give attention to our hearts, but rather give attention simply to the Lord's word, to what he says and to what he does in baptism, in the Lord's Supper, in the absolution. There's a reason why the Gospel comes to us from the outside. This is one of the joys of our Lutheran theology. And nobody else really has this, but because everybody else is pointing you back to Your own heart and your own feelings and your own confession and maybe your own actions or whatever to try to find the assurance. Am I really a Christian? Have I done enough? Have I surrendered enough? Have I accomplished enough?
[00:15:31] Have I obeyed enough or whatever. But here we have this question that comes to us or this confidence that comes to us from the gospel that Christ has done it. It is finished, he says. And the thing, Eva, that he finished and all of you listening, the thing that he's finished is your salvation.
[00:15:50] He has suffered for every single one of your sins and he applies that remedy of his blood to your conscience through the gospel, through the forgiveness of sins.
[00:16:02] So he baptized you and he baptized you not so that you could wonder if he loves you, but so that you could know that he does.
[00:16:10] So that he can adopt you as his child and give you this confidence that he has made you his own child.
[00:16:16] Now the reason why we feel like frauds, Christian imposter syndrome is because each one of us is only half Christian. That's from Luther. Oh man, I wonder if I could find that saying where Luther says that every Christian is only half a Christian. Okay, I'll look. Hold on, let me pause this thing, see if I can. Alright. Can't find it somewhere. Luther says that we are, we are half Christian. And this is referring to the fact that we are spirit and flesh. And that flesh is always going to be chirping. Well, you're not holy, you're not perfect, you're not doing everything that you should do.
[00:16:52] Fair enough.
[00:16:53] But remember, the flesh's job with the devil and the world is not to determine where you're going to be forever, not to determine your status.
[00:17:03] The devil and your flesh are right when they say that you're a sinner.
[00:17:07] But you can say to them, well, thank you for reminding me that I'm a sinner. Because Jesus says he only came for sinners to die, for sinners, to rescue sinners.
[00:17:17] So that the fact that I'm a sinner doesn't mean that I'm an imposter. The fact that I recognize myself to be a sinner is anti hypocrisy. It's the confession of the truth.
[00:17:28] So that we confess two things.
[00:17:31] We confess that we are sinners deserving of God's wrath. And we confess that Christ is the savior of sinners.
[00:17:40] So this is repentance, contrition and faith. And I hope that encourages you. And it comes to us from the. Remember, Eva, it comes to you from the outside, not from the inside. It comes to you from as a gift of God, by the Holy Spirit.
[00:17:53] God be praised.
[00:17:55] Okay, here's a Don't mention my name. Who says a topic of communion? Is that the pastor's choice to include early communion kids from other churches to the rail when it's not the practice of the church they're visiting, or does the congregation have authority to exclude them against what their pastor might think is right?
[00:18:15] Is this an office of the keys issue or an office of the minister issue? This is a good question. Okay, so we do have two different practices, basically, in admittance to the Lord's Supper. Well, maybe three. There is the.
[00:18:29] Well, there's a few, very few, that amongst the confessional Lutherans that are practicing infant communion. And I think this, by the evidence of the scripture, is very, very risky and not a good, healthy practice. Send in your questions. But there are then two other practices which are generally accepted, and that is kind of early communion or a communion admittance before confirmation and then communion at confirmation.
[00:19:00] We have this.
[00:19:02] We have this at our congregation, is that we will.
[00:19:07] Well, communion. We're mixing it up. But in general, communion comes a little bit later.
[00:19:12] You're probably not into fifth grade. You got to be fifth grade or so before you can be admitted to the rail. We do have admittance to communion before confirmation now, but that's somewhat new. So if you go back five years, there's a few families that joined our church, and the children had already been admitted to the table at a previous congregation, and then they moved here, transferred here. And how I handled it was I went to the elders and I said, I do not want to now deny them admittance to the table when they've already been admitted.
[00:19:45] And so it was a conversation that I had with the elders about the practice, and they said, yep, we think that sounds good. Do we need to adjust our own practice? And I said, well, not right now. Not to accommodate to this. We keep doing what we're doing. And they have to know that even there's a couple of families, for example, that had kids who were admitted to the table earlier, maybe like third grade, and they came here and they have other kids who won't then be admitted till fifth grade. So we just have to explain it to them. We have to understand that the kids can understand all of these things, hopefully, and we can kind of work it through. But I think the pastor is the one who has the authority to admit or not admit at the table, but he ought to be doing that in a way that's consistent with how the congregation understands these things to be functioning in order to not cause offense.
[00:20:37] So it ought not to be done in a prideful or a hey, this is my job kind of thing, but rather should be done in the context of. Of the congregation. So the pastor is to be considered a steward of the mystery of God. This is First Corinthians, chapter four, where the office of the pastor is the one who's serving in a way, as a butler at the Lord's table, who's either admitting or denying people to the table.
[00:21:08] That's the role that he's playing there. So hope that's helpful. Thanks for sending the question.
[00:21:14] See what's next. We're rolling through these Max says, on the topic of closeness to God, my friend has been struggling with depression recently and has had it affect their prayer life and being able to hear him. God, I was wondering if you could help me know how to comfort someone who's struggling, although the Spirit does all the work not to make it worse in the process. Love your work. Thank you for all you do. God bless you. Thank you, Max, for this great question. And God be praised that the Lord has given you this friend and given this friend to you for the purpose of comfort and consolation, etc. One of the dangers that's going on with your friend is that there's a confusion about how do we hear God.
[00:22:08] And this is tricky because almost all of Christianity, including American Evangelicalism, which has a sort of soft mysticism, as well as Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, which also have a mystical element.
[00:22:27] All of these Christian traditions will teach us, even if it's not explicit, although a lot of times it is explicit, but it's almost an implicit thing that God speaks to each one of us individually in our heart.
[00:22:42] And the word for this, by the way, is enthusiasm. That is that the Word comes first on the inside, that the Word comes first to my heart.
[00:22:53] And the problem? Well, there's lots and lots of problems there.
[00:22:57] There's a problem when the Word does show up in the heart, and then there's a problem when the Word doesn't show up in the heart. So to take first the problem when the Word does show up in the heart, you got a lot of things going. Because if that word is in concert with the Word of God, then you don't need it in the heart if it's not in concert with the Word of God. Now you have this contest, do I follow the Word inside or do I follow the Word outside? It's Adam and Eve who followed the inside word over the outside word, when Eve saw the fruit looks good, even though God said, don't eat it, et cetera. So when you get an inside word, if it lines up with the X with the outside word, then it still is undercutting that outside word. Because here I have the inside word that matters more. If it doesn't line up with the outside word, then now I really have a problem. Do I follow the inside word or the outside word?
[00:23:49] And then if I don't get an inside word, which is what Max's friend is dealing with here, then what do I do? Is God not talking to me?
[00:23:57] So we have to be so clear on this that the Word is near to us in the word that's preached.
[00:24:07] So that when we pray, we are speaking to God, but we hear God not from the impulses or inclinations of our own heart, but from the Word.
[00:24:19] We look to the Word to hear from God. This is how Paul teaches us to confess in Romans, chapter 10. I'm turning. There now. This is so good, he says.
[00:24:29] How will they call on him whom they haven't believed? And how will they believe on him whom they've never heard?
[00:24:34] And how shall they hear without a preacher?
[00:24:37] And how shall they preach unless they're sent?
[00:24:40] How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things. Now, this is all in the context, even what Paul says before. If I go back to verse five, Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law. The man who does those things shall live by them. But the righteousness of faith speaks. This don't say in your heart, who will ascend to heaven to bring Christ down from above, or who descend to the abyss to bring Christ up from the dead? What does it say? The Word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart. That is the word of faith which we preach.
[00:25:16] So the Word is first preached. We turn to the Scriptures, to the preached word of God, to the written word of God, to the spoken word of God. This is truly God speaking to us. Now, we might be disappointed. We might want a special independent word from God. We might want a.
[00:25:36] We might want a special vision for the Lord to come straight to us. But we have to.
[00:25:42] We have to say, look, if it's good enough for the apostles and the prophets, it's good enough for us.
[00:25:49] And part of our confession of the sufficiency of the Scriptures is being content with the Word of God and not looking for anything else. So when it comes to our prayers, what does it say, Jesus says, ask and you will receive.
[00:26:06] Seek and you'll find.
[00:26:08] Knock and the door will be open to you.
[00:26:10] By the way, Luther takes that. Oh, this is really nice.
[00:26:14] Luther takes that as a threefold to do list for prayer. So first we ask God, lord, here's what we need. Could you help us? Could you help my friend?
[00:26:26] We offer our supplications and intercessions, petitions.
[00:26:32] And then if the Lord doesn't answer right away, as we're waiting, then we seek. That is, we open the Bible and we look to make sure we're asking for the right thing.
[00:26:42] We say, maybe my petition is a bad one. Maybe I'm not asking for the right thing. Maybe I need to repent and say, no, I need to ask for something else. So we seek to see if the Lord in fact wills and wants and has promised to answer that kind of prayer. And when we find that the Lord has promised to answer that kind of prayer, then third we. We knock. That is, we keep on asking.
[00:27:05] And this is something. When Jesus tells us that we are to be persistent in prayer. And then he gives us these examples of prayer like the widow going to the unrighteous judge. Remember, it's a funny. It's kind of a funny parable because Jesus says that there's a woman and she goes to the judge. And he neither fears God nor man. In other words, he's a wicked judge. He doesn't even care about her. He doesn't want to hear her petition or whatever, but he answers her cry because he just got sick of her. He's like, all right, fine, I'll give you justice if you just leave me alone.
[00:27:40] Can you imagine? And Jesus says, now that's how I want you to pray.
[00:27:45] I want you to just keep knocking, keep going. In other words, that parable assumes that we're going to be tempted to get tired of praying, tired of waiting, tired of sitting there waiting for the Lord to answer our prayers. He assumes that it's baked into the process so that we want to keep going. This is why the story of the Syrophoenician woman is such a beautiful picture of prayer. She goes and is praying that Jesus would rescue her daughter from the demons. And Jesus ignores her. And then he says, I didn't come for the lost, except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And then he says, it's not right to take the food from the table and throw it to the dogs. And still she just falls down at his feet, unwavering, undaunted, and said, lord, Just give me the crumbs that fall from the table so that the Lord. And this is good for all of us to hear. The Lord Jesus teaches us to assume that our life is going to be waiting in prayer.
[00:28:52] Every prayer starts as an unanswered prayer and extends it has an extended life of an unanswered prayer. And this is according to the Lord's will, just like waiting for the second coming when the five wise and five foolish virgins are pictured for us.
[00:29:09] All ten were ready to go that moment, but it was the wise who were ready to wait. So this is part of our Christian wisdom, is to be persistent, obnoxiously persistent in our prayers as we wait for the Lord to answer them.
[00:29:24] So when it feels like God is not listening, that's probably when he's just right around the corner.
[00:29:30] There's one more passage. This is one of the favorites of Luther and the old lutherans. It's Psalm 50, verse 15, where it says, call upon me in the day of trouble, and I will hear you and I will deliver you.
[00:29:41] So we hold onto that promise even though it seems like the Lord is not hearing or delivering.
[00:29:50] That's the point of that.
[00:29:51] Now, again, our closeness then to God is not a matter of feeling, but a matter of promise. And part of my max. And this is maybe not like the first day of seminary that they teach you this, but I found that almost all of my pastoral care.
[00:30:07] Well, okay, let me not say it like that. A bunch of my pastoral care is saying to people who tell me, well, I don't feel this way saying, well, so what?
[00:30:18] Like, I don't feel close to God. Well, so what? Did God promise? To never leave you or forsake you?
[00:30:24] Well, in fact, he did.
[00:30:27] So your feelings are wrong. You can repent of feeling the wrong way about how close God is because he is close. He promised it. Pastor, I don't feel forgiven.
[00:30:35] Well, so what? Did Jesus promise? To forgive you your sins? To be the savior of sinners. To put your sins away as far as the east is from the west, to cast them into the depths of the sea. That he is your redeemer and your Savior. That he's carried your sins and your sorrows and that by his stripes you're healed. That he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and promised be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Drink this cup of the New Testament for the forgiveness of sins. Did Jesus promise that your feelings about it are wrong? Repent.
[00:31:06] Your feelings are. Well, not always, but almost Always lying to you. And we have to practice this ministerial use of emotion. In other words, we cannot think that the scriptures have to serve our feelings, but that our feelings, our liver, our kidneys, what the Bible talks about our hearts, our emotions and have to serve the word of God. And if they don't, if they get out of line, if we start to feel things that are different than what the Bible says, well, we can say, lord, forgive me for feeling the wrong way, because I know you're close and I know your love and I know your grace and I know you're forgiving my sins.
[00:31:44] It goes the other way too, Pastor. I just feel like God wants me to be happy, you know, here I'm going to divorce my wife or whatever. Doesn't God want me to be? So what you feel like you want to be? No. The Lord hasn't promised that you're going to be happy your whole life, that you're. That like the law of God is going to crumble to serve your own feelings and emotions, repent.
[00:32:10] So if we don't feel close to God, what is he promised the Lord? Psalm 34:18.
[00:32:17] The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart. Jesus says, Matthew 11. Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden. I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Learn from me. I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
[00:32:37] There's the promise. God be praised. Thank you, Max, for the question. God bless your.
[00:32:44] God bless your conversation with your friend Jacob. Are we still going here? I got a cup of coffee. We're still going. How long we've been doing this? We're just getting started.
[00:32:51] Jacob says, on radical pietism.
[00:32:55] My wife Em and I grew up in the Evangelical Free Church before converting to Lutheranism in our late twenties. Welcome to the family. I've been reading about the history of the Evangelical Free Church in America. The influence of radical pietism is a recurring theme. What can you tell me about the history and influence of radical pietism on American Christianity? Well, a little bit I've written about this some in the book has American Christianity failed. Although in that book I talk about pietism in a somewhat abstract way.
[00:33:24] We can define piety here. There's a lot of different ways to define pietism. It's a historic movement. Started with the Lutherans. It was a reaction to the dead orthodoxy that said, hey, theology is. Or Christianity is more about just getting the doctrine right. It's More about your heart and your life.
[00:33:40] It was an anti clerical movement so that the pietists were always diminishing the role of the pastor and in that way diminishing the role of the sacraments, the role of absolution.
[00:33:56] Pietism wants to find the unity of faith and the assurance of salvation in our growth of good works more than our confession of Christ.
[00:34:07] And it tends towards legalism. That's the way that most people notice pietism is it has a legalistic strain.
[00:34:17] It's going to add more commands to the scripture than the scripture has. It's like, I mean, 10 is enough really. Right.
[00:34:27] But pietism is going to want to add more onto it.
[00:34:31] So.
[00:34:32] So one of the things that. Well, there's two things it's really interesting.
[00:34:37] Pietism is probably most noticeable by people who are in it by this constant, by asking where is the emphasis?
[00:34:48] Is the emphasis on the mercy of Christ crucified, the kindness of God in our flesh, suffering on our behalf?
[00:34:56] Is that where the theological emphasis is?
[00:34:59] Or is the emphasis somewhere else?
[00:35:02] Is the emphasis in my obedience, in my Christian living?
[00:35:09] Horton, Michael Horton wrote a book about Christless Christianity and he asked this. He's a reformed guy, but he asked the question, is the preaching more about the Christian than about Christ, more about our Christian life than about Christ's death, more about our living a glorious life and less about the suffering of our Lord Jesus? And that's one of the ways that pietism shows up. There's a lot of little Lutheran churches that are very influenced by pietism. The apostolic Lutherans. Well, there's just a bunch.
[00:35:45] That's one group that has this strong pietistic influence. And it's really interesting to see. Now there's a couple good things about pietism. Number one, we should be trying to serve God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength.
[00:35:58] Let's call that piety rather than pietism.
[00:36:02] There's a high regard for the Lord's word.
[00:36:04] But you notice that anytime we start to diminish the sacraments, this is really the whole, oh, I don't know, the whole theological play of false doctrine.
[00:36:16] Anytime we try to diminish the sacraments, what we're losing is the comfort of the gospel. I mean, Jesus gave us these things on purpose when he gathered up the disciples and said, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and teaching them. He did it on purpose.
[00:36:34] On the night before he was betrayed, our Lord Jesus took bread and when he'd given thanks. He gave it to them. Same with a cup. This is my body, this is my blood poured out for you. For the forgiveness of sins. Do this often in remembrance of me. He did this on purpose.
[00:36:50] Because Jesus knows that our hearts are like ships tossed to and fro on the sea.
[00:36:57] And he knows that we are under the attack of the devil, the world and the flesh.
[00:37:02] And he knows that we're going to be filled with trepidation and fear.
[00:37:06] And so he wants to establish our confidence in his mercy by setting it on those things which are outside of us.
[00:37:16] And that's the gift of baptism and the Lord's Supper and absolution and preaching and all this. And so we have to fight against pietism in that way.
[00:37:26] We have to fight against pietism by not letting our Christian life be dragged onto the inside and miss what's there on the outside.
[00:37:40] Great question.
[00:37:41] Another Jason no, wrong question.
[00:37:47] Here's one from don't use my name.
[00:37:53] Lutherans and LCMS chaplaincy Pastor, how come the CMS and I think that means lcms Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is so weak evangelically I'm becoming chaplain and hopefully I land myself in jail. That's a good goal in life. I love telling people my life goal is to go to jail with a smile. Let them ask the next question.
[00:38:14] Corporate Senate I guess was no help. Then again, maybe I said that wrong.
[00:38:20] The Pharisees that run the churches had no answer or help at the home office. Just curious if is that supposed to be Pharisees?
[00:38:26] That's a misspelled word. Just curious if you know, I'm going out on my own. So did Martin Luther with no LCMS help. Sadly pastors are great and helps all he can. Thanks so much for all that you do. All glory to God, et cetera. Well, okay, so. Good question.
[00:38:41] It was President Harrison of the LCMS who said I'll retire at home. My predecessor will retire in jail and his predecessor will be martyred.
[00:38:54] In other words, he himself. And I don't know if this was. I mean it's a guess. It's not a prophecy. He's no prophet. But his guess is that the persecution of the church is going to get worse and worse.
[00:39:05] And in some ways we are all to expect that Luther. I was just looking at this before I started recording. I was looking at this, at this little book on Luther and the martyrs that I wrote a few years ago.
[00:39:19] I think it's at Wolfmuller Co Life and you can download it for free or listen for free. Take they are life. Martin Luther's theology of the martyrs. It just has all these great Luther quotes about the martyrs. And one of the things that Luther says, it's astonishing. He says, in our day, the true pattern of the Christian life has reemerged. And he's talking about the burning of Brother Henry. In other words, Luther says that the normal Christian life is one of martyrdom. The normal Christian life is one of suffering and affliction. The normal Christian life is one of persecution. So we are ready for that. Jesus says, in this world you will have trouble. And then he goes on to say that they'll drag you before the courts. The Holy Spirit will give you the words to say, those who kill you will think that they do a good work to God.
[00:40:06] So that every Christian is ready to be a martyr. That's why, how amazing is it that we still have in the church at our confirmation vows, we still have the martyr's vow.
[00:40:18] Will you forsake all? Will you suffer all, even death, rather than fall away from this faith?
[00:40:27] So every Christian's a martyr? Maybe. Let's just put that down. Every Christian is a martyr. Now, every Christian might not be a martyr in history, but every Christian is ready to be a martyr. That's part of what it means to be a Christian, to be a child of God, to be ready to go now. So I think it's great to say, oh, go to jail or whatever.
[00:40:47] Sometimes I wonder if that same thing will happen to me. I was frustrated a couple years ago because it seemed like we were all going to have to go to jail for saying that marriage is between a man and a woman and a woman, and that two dudes can't get married or whatever. You got to go to jail for that. And I was frustrated. I said, that's the thing. I'd rather go to jail for confessing Christ as the savior of the world rather than marriage as a man and a woman. But it was my friend, Pastor Katchelmeier who reminded me, first, you don't get to choose. And second, that's why John the Baptist had his head cut off, because he was saying that Herod's marriage to his sister in law or whatever was illegitimate.
[00:41:24] And he got a lot of thanks for that.
[00:41:27] So that's true.
[00:41:29] Now here though, I want to come back to this question that's being asked about the Missouri Synod and chaplaincy.
[00:41:35] I do not think, okay, there's two things. I do not think that the Missouri Synod as an institution is against readiness to die, against boldness, against in the face of an onslaught of culture, etc.
[00:41:54] I do think that the Missouri Synod as an institution struggles, and I can understand it, even though I think it's wrong. It struggles with outspokenness.
[00:42:12] It wants. At the institutional level, it wants people that it can.
[00:42:18] That it can have some sort of control.
[00:42:21] It's working in a range of personality.
[00:42:24] And if your personality is far off from the kind of personality where we can know that you're going to be normal and not give us a lot of trouble, then it's going to be hard to find a place in the institution.
[00:42:38] We see this with some of the missionaries who in some ways have to be so driven and out there and risking everything, but it becomes very difficult for the institutions to find a place for them.
[00:42:50] And so you just got to know that.
[00:42:52] And one of the things that we want to avoid. Remember what St. Paul says when he says, if I'm crazy, it's for God. If I'm normal, it's for you.
[00:42:59] There's a lot in that verse. I'm going to read that verse. Hold on a minute. Let me find that verse.
[00:43:06] Okay, here's the text. It's 2 Corinthians 5. I'm going to start in verse 12.
[00:43:11] For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart.
[00:43:22] For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God, or if we are of sound mind, it is for you.
[00:43:30] For the love of Christ compels us. Because we judge thus that if one died for all, then all died, and if he died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and rose again.
[00:43:44] Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh, etc. Now, there is a lot of wisdom, dear friends, in this. If we're beside ourselves, it's for God. If we are of sound mind, it's for you. That means that before God, okay, Basically, before God, it's okay to be a little bit crazy, but not before men.
[00:44:08] And Paul has the capacity, even through all of his visions and through all of his spiritual gifts, he has the capacity to, let's just say, be normal.
[00:44:17] When he's talking to people, he's able to relate to them in a normal way.
[00:44:26] When he says, I become all things to all people, that means to the people who need him to be normal and take a personality type test and to be agreeable and go along with things and to understand that not everyone thinks the same as you do, etc. Etc. That that's what he does.
[00:44:48] And we should know, especially young men entering into the ministry, if you're a young man entering, thinking about becoming a pastor and thinking about becoming a husband and a father, that you can act normal. It's okay. Paul says it. If we're of sound mind, it's for your sake. So that we can be of sound mind, we can think things through clearly and strategically, we can act in a normal way.
[00:45:14] And that is fine. It's acceptable. In fact, it's good.
[00:45:18] There's a range of normal that is required of me to be a pastor.
[00:45:24] There's a range of normal that's required of me to be a husband and a father.
[00:45:28] And St. Paul says that we can live within that range. And even if you've got some kind of wild and crazy ideas about how it is with God and how it is with the scriptures, etc. That you can. This is what Paul says. If we're out of our mind, it's before God. But if we're thinking soundly, it's for your sake, it's okay to be normal.
[00:45:52] Hope that's helpful. All right, where'd my questions go? Thank you for that question.
[00:45:56] Let's see what's next? Why not? What do you think? One, two more? You guys, by the way, can send me your own questions at Wolfmuller co contact.
[00:46:06] I think that's it. Here's a Don't use my name.
[00:46:09] Who says this is about doubt? Oh, I've always been raised to understand that real Lutherans hold to the idea that the Book of Concord is true because it is fully supported by Scripture.
[00:46:20] What do I do when I'm starting to doubt? I'm not elca. Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, which I don't even know if they have a copy of the Book of Concord anymore. The big difference, by the way, between the ELCA and the Missouri Synod was the way we subscribe to the Book of Concord. We subscribe quia because it's a right confession.
[00:46:38] They subscribe quatanus insofar as it's a right question. And CFW Walter makes this great point, I don't know, 200 years ago or something. He says you can subscribe quatanus to anything. You can subscribe quatanus to the Quran. I subscribe to the Quran insofar as it teaches the Scriptures. That does not saying anything anyway. The ELCA used to do quatanus. I don't even Think they. Again, I don't even know if they do anymore, but.
[00:47:05] Okay, back to the thing. I'm not elca, but I'm having a really difficult time accepting some of the conclusions that we've come to. Okay, first, God be praised that you're engaged in the Scripture and in the confessions and in a helpful and honest way. This is great, and God will bless it. One of the key passages that I always point people to is John 7:17.
[00:47:30] And this was when Carrie and I were wrestling through where we should go to church, what we should believe, etc. We kept coming back to this promise that Jesus gives. He says, if anyone wills to do his will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it's from God or whether I speak on my own authority.
[00:47:55] So Jesus says, if you will to do God's will, he will let you know if the doctrine is his or not. And so we have the confidence that the Lord is helping all of us towards orthodoxy. The second thing, dear friend, and for all of us, is that we do not need to be afraid of the Book of Concord being wrong according to the Scripture, because if it's wrong, we want to know about it.
[00:48:17] We are called to confess what the Bible says, not what the Lutherans say or what anyone else says. So we don't need to be afraid of finding out if there's an error in the Book of Concord. We should eagerly look for that because we want to be compelled by the word of God, and it is only the word of God that keeps us confident and safe in our conscience, etc. So don't be afraid. As you're digging into the Scriptures and comparing what the Bible says to what the Book of Concord says, then don't be afraid of finding something wrong. That's what you should be looking for. Now, I can say that with confidence for two reasons. Because I think the Bible speak. I think the Book of Concord speaks what the Bible does. I think it holds up to scrutiny.
[00:49:05] And so that's a second reason I always encourage. Like when the kids come in and there's a Lutheran dating a Catholic or a Lutheran dating a Baptist, I said, look, don't worry about being Lutheran or Catholic or whatever. Just worry about what the Bible says. Now, I can say that with great confidence because what the Bible says is what the Lutherans say. Okay? But either way, it still gives you a way to just say, yeah, I believe what the Bible says.
[00:49:28] So that's really great. Now the question is, what are the specific things?
[00:49:34] And I, dear questioner, am happy to help with this, if you want to send in an email that says, hey, I wonder about this and this and this and this from the Book of Concord, I'm happy to talk to you about those things. If you have good friends that are also good theologians, it'd be great to talk to them. Most importantly, it would be great to talk to your pastor about this.
[00:49:55] To go and sit down with him and say, hey, how did the Lutherans come up with this stuff?
[00:50:00] Whatever it is about baptismal regeneration or about this understanding of the Second Coming or whatever it is, you know, let's hold it up to the Scriptures and see if it holds up. And I think that will be a.
[00:50:15] That'll be a wonderful gift. We have to receive these questions as gifts from God, because as we dig into them and as we look into it and as we try to see if.
[00:50:26] If these things are all true, then it strengthens our own faith.
[00:50:30] God be praised. Great question. Thanks so much. Let's do one more. This has been fun. By the way, let me know what you think about this new podcast. Just answering the questions. Aha. Pedo communion. This is from Don't Mention My Name. I was hoping to hear your thoughts about pedo communion and the scriptural and patristic. Wait, it says patriotic, but I think that means patristic reasons why the Lutherans reject it. Wait, we don't.
[00:50:55] Huh? I'm aware that the arguments are made that the pre Great Schism Church or something similar practiced it. It would mean that the claim thrown at us is that we're innovators, which I don't want to be. So pedo communion means baby communion.
[00:51:08] Oh. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I was reading pedo baptism, but pedo communion, yeah, I think the best. So you're right. Even in the Orthodox, they practice it where they'll baptize a baby and then they have this long golden spoon and they'll give the baby communion. And it's my understanding that that really happens once. I don't think that that's the normal practice, but you get communion once and then you grow up. And then later on, when you're ready, you start to engage in the practice.
[00:51:46] The reason, and I think the only reason that the Lutherans do not practice baby communion is Paul's instructions, 1 Corinthians 11:27, where he says, therefore, whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
[00:52:05] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner, eats and drinks judgment on himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this reason many are weak and sick. Among you many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord that we may not be condemned with the world.
[00:52:29] So that Paul requires, I mean, just in that text, he says he talks about unworthy eating and then he talks about worthiness. And he says he requires examination, self examination, judgment, discernment, that this is required for the supper.
[00:52:51] Now here's a helpful distinction, I think, and this comes from Pieper and maybe from before Francis Pieper, the Lutheran dogmatician. He makes the distinction between saving faith and reflective faith. Fides reflexa or something like that versus I can't remember the Latin, but anyway, you got that idea. Saving faith versus reflective faith.
[00:53:13] Reflective faith is faith that is aware of itself.
[00:53:20] So that if I sit here and think about it, do I believe in Jesus and do I trust his blood as my salvation and do I confess his resurrection from the dead?
[00:53:31] I can tell you, yeah, I do. I believe in Jesus. I can. I have an awareness of it, but I don't always have an awareness of it. For example, if I'm sleeping or if I'm running from a snake, or even when I got pretty sick with COVID and I had some pretty wacky days where I was pretty diminished mentally.
[00:53:52] I don't know if I was aware of anything. The capacity for reflection just wasn't there.
[00:53:58] Does that mean if I lack the awareness of faith, that I lack faith? The answer is no. I can have faith without knowing I have faith.
[00:54:10] And this is very helpful. Number one, it's helpful for infant faith. Number two, it's helpful for those who are aging and getting Alzheimer's and memory problems and their capacity for self reflection is gone. Or for those people who have disabilities and don't have that capacity for self reflection. Just because they don't have that doesn't mean that they, that they don't have faith. And importantly, this is why the Lutherans made this distinction, is that if our awareness of faith is the same as faith, this starts to lean faith over into some sort of work that we are doing, which we want to avoid, so that a person can have faith without being aware of it. Now, we don't want to turn that into the kind of anonymous Christians of Vatican II that you can be a Christian without knowing it. We'd Say that if a person does have the capacity to reflect on their heart and their faith, then they would have an awareness of that faith.
[00:55:10] So that we would expect that in adults and people who have mature capacity or whatever.
[00:55:16] Just like we don't expect children who can't talk to confess the faith, but we do expect people who can talk to confess the faith. So it's a difference in capacity.
[00:55:25] So you can have faith, and then that faith shows up in proportion to your capacity to speak and act and confess and to reflect, etc. Etc.
[00:55:35] Now, all that being, I think, by the way, just as an aside, one of the major mistakes of evangelicalism, American evangelicalism, is that it confuses saving faith with reflective faith and confuses the awareness of faith with the presence of faith, so that it'll say you don't have faith until you make a decision or until you know it's there. That's a huge, huge mistake. And one of the big mistakes is that it excludes children from having faith, which we know they do. Jesus talks about it all the time. It's like one of his favorite things to talk about. Unless you have faith as a little child, you can't enter the kingdom of heaven.
[00:56:12] Whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to stumble, it'd be better if a millstone was thrown around your neck.
[00:56:20] Out of the mouths of babies and nursing infants you've perfected Praise Jesus quotes that. And what's that from? Psalm 8. It's beautiful.
[00:56:27] So that if you say that the awareness of faith is the same as faith, you exclude people who the Lord does not exclude from faith. That's probably at the root of the rejection of infant baptism.
[00:56:39] But it does seem like this text from St. Paul is saying that there is a reflective faith required for communion admittance.
[00:56:50] And so we wait, and this has been the practice of the church in the West.
[00:56:55] So we wait until that reflective faith is present, and we try to cultivate that reflective faith before we admit people to the Lord's Supper.
[00:57:03] So that's where that Lutheran practice comes from. And I think it's good. I think it's important.
[00:57:10] I think it's right to think about this now. I had one other thing I was thinking about with reflective faith, capacity to believe, coming to the Lord's Supper.
[00:57:23] And I lost it.
[00:57:25] I can't believe I lost. Oh, yeah, my example. Here's my example of faith versus reflective faith. Can you imagine that you're a kid and you're, I don't know, five years old and your dad Says, hey, jump in the car. We're gonna go to Wendy's to get a Frosty. And you're all right, sounds great. So you jump in the car, you're riding along with dad, you're chit chatting, listening to music, and you pull up to a stop sign, and the guy's standing there on the sidewalk. And he looks over and he says, hey, what are you doing?
[00:57:54] And you say, I'm going to Wendy's with my dad to get a Frosty.
[00:58:00] And he says, well, how do you know that?
[00:58:02] And you say, well, dad said, let's go to Wendy's and get a Frosty. And the man says, oh, you must have a lot of faith in the promise of your father.
[00:58:12] And you say, I don't know what you're talking about. We're going to Wendy's to get a Frosty.
[00:58:18] In other words, it's true that you have faith in the word of your father, but you don't know that's what you have. You just have a dad who keeps his word and who takes you to Wendy's for a Frosty.
[00:58:33] And that's what faith is.
[00:58:36] That simple trust in the word of God. And as you grow up, you're like, oh, yeah, man, my dad's trustworthy. There's people who aren't trustworthy. And my dad is really trustworthy. And that's nice. When he would say, let's go to get a. You maybe can reflect on that and realize that a big part of your own life is built on the trustworthiness or lack of trustworthiness of whoever the character of your father was, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, fine, great. But in the meantime, we're just going to Wendy's to get a Frosty.
[00:59:01] It's great. It's really great.
[00:59:04] All right, hope that's helpful. Let's see how we're doing on time here. We are an hour into it.
[00:59:10] All right, you guys, let me know what you think about this. Wolfmuller co contact. Send your own theology questions there. We'll keep doing this. Put it on the calendar for the theological vacations. July 1819. Chicago's got issues, etc.
[00:59:24] Oh, and I'm thinking about this, too. There's a death conference in St. Louis, Monday, July 7, through Wednesday, July 9. I don't know if. If you look up, how would you find this?
[00:59:40] What is this called?
[00:59:43] Death and Dying. I call it the Death Con Conference. I'm talking on. I've got a sectional on Tuesday morning, and then there's a And then I've got the plenary on Wednesday, Dying well in Christ, a forum on the church's care at life's end. That's really Pam Nielsen's put this together. July 7th to 9th in St. Louis. I can't believe the amount of speakers that are there. Just the plenaries. Gilbert Milander, John Zwick, his old friend from Fort Wayne, a funeral director, Bob Kolb, William hoy. I'm doing one. Dr. Rast is doing one.
[01:00:18] And then the plenaries. I mean, like, all the seminary professors are doing plenaries. It's really, really great. I'm going to have the topic on death as spiritual warfare, and then seven Myths About Death and Dying. So there's another option for you. So July 7th through the 9th, dying while in Christ. And then 7-18-19, either in Chicago Issues, et cetera, or down here in Austin. And if you're in Denmark, by the way, that's cool.
[01:00:44] I'm going to the summer camp there. July 29th, 28th and 2030th or something.
[01:00:53] Yeah, yeah, I better put that on my website. So if you're hanging around Denmark and you want to come to that summer camp, that'll be super, super cool as well. All right. God's peace be with you. That is the Whatnot Q and A podcast. Talk to you again soon.
